To date Stereophile has done a good job separating hearing from the microphone. This seemed like an efficient way to meet some Klipsch fans in their natural habitat. As with measuring speakers, we'll have to solve how we feel about such things in a relative and meaningful sense before we can expect to progress. I said to him, "It seems to me that the problem of designing a classically well-behaved loudspeaker is basically solved." I also turned to the recording by Georg Solti, the Vienna Philharmonic, Kirsten Flagstad, et al, of Wagner's Das Rheingold (3 LPs, London OSA 1309). I turned to the guy next to me and saw that it was none other than Paul Klipsch! leaner than usual on the bottom but more dynamic than than anything else in the house. This store had Heresys mounted 12 feet up, made a glorious sound in that room. When I first tried Klipsch's bookshelves way back when (62i or something), the seller told me they'd be 12db louder at my seating position given same amp level. Klipschorn's premium, aluminum input panel accommodates large, high-quality speaker cables. Body—especially body. I'm merely curious, and I think it would be interesting to others as well. This historic speaker boasts an all-new neodymium tweeter, premium wire management system, and fully-enclosed design for flexible placement. A meaningful hierarchy of those flaws - which doesn't exist yet - will naturally run in parallel to a meaningful hierarchy of their respective sound. I could easily make a Rival speaker have flatter frequency response. >> what's the benchmark here? Like versions I and II, the Forte III couples to the floor via a 1" wood base to which four 1/8"-thick round metal footers are attached, one for each corner. For the Forte III price point, it's more like the 4429 (which I've seen very few reviews / measurements of). Goosebumps on goosebumps. Toole/Keele/Geddes say that polar plots (or early-reflection directivity index) are important. I managed to use some for internal re-wiring of some vintage gear. The Forte III is the most amplifier-sensitive loudspeaker I've reviewed: Careful upstream choices were essential. ... that a heavy resonance-free cabinet was unnecessary if the resonances were relatively low in frequency and amplitude such that they would be masked by the program(me) material? Apparently hell hath no fury like an audiophile whose speaker he likes the sound of is shown to have sub-optimal measured performance :-). Ask any of my customers if they want me to do that for them. Not cheap, but it would outperform the most systems regardless of cost. I had wondered whether the different amps Art used would have produced difference measurements in JA1's protocol. Indeed, at the Klipschorn price point. Not a lot of bass, but everything else was right in place. As I said, rather than publish polar plots, I show in detail a loudspeaker's dispersion in both horizontal and vertical planes. I found in the Klipschorn AK6 an imperfect loudspeaker that satisfied many of my long-standing longings and a couple I didn't know I had—for amazing sound way off-axis, and for big, beautiful pieces of old-school audio art in my listening room. Not being snarky here - I'm confident none of my customers would change a thing. I've found enjoyable combinations of all those qualities—compromises, to be sure, but good, smart ones—in the DeVore O/93s and O/96s. Enough headroom - again, if it's even considered - to my mind should be no less than 10-15dB's of the maximum SPL one achieves during playback, preferably more. Problem seems to be 'quasi-knowledge' of some of the commentators :-) ......... Those measurements are not what you expect from a $15k speaker, good luck selling these Klipsch today at that price, back in the 50-60's maybe. Physical time alignment is as good comic prattle as natural-sounding dynamics, pluck, and snap. With heavy MDF cabinets and good engineering, you can have a resonance-free enclosure and excellent frequency response on and off-axis. During the next couple of weeks, I found much to admire in the performance of the Klipschorns, which reproduced vocals with exceptional clarity and lack of coloration, and whose stereo imaging and soundstaging capabilities were shockingly good for such wide loudspeakers. 1. Yes, J-10 was and still is a great writer. He brought it up, but I said the same thing on a different sight about the Klipsch Forte. B&W 705 Signature Measurements | Stereophile: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion: 3: Nov 25, 2020: Inner Fidelity reviews at Stereophile: Headphones and Headphone Amplifier Reviews: 0: Oct 5, 2020: M: Stereophile Reviews Dutch & Dutch 8C: Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions: 43: Jul 5, 2019 The last thing we need here. Are you willing to share an example of a specific design choice you made that resulted in worse measurements and better sound? The manufacturer's specs include a frequency response of 38Hz–20kHz, ±3dB, a sensitivity of 99dB/2.83V/m, and an impedance described as "8 ohms compatible." I had to 'create' the sound of the bass that I wanted through driver/cabinet/crossover work, and that resulted in a test that showed less than flat response. I am sure Paul probably helped them set up the system as they were close to Hope. Now kids are gone and I'm in my senior years and I will never sell them again. The problem arises when everything it appears in ranges only between Toyota and Lexus. B&W 705 Signature Measurements | Stereophile: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion: 3: Nov 25, 2020: Inner Fidelity reviews at Stereophile: Headphones and Headphone Amplifier Reviews: 0: Oct 5, 2020: M: Stereophile Reviews Dutch & Dutch 8C: Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions: 43: Jul 5, 2019 The authority on good design is sound, even as annoying as the human element has become of late. “ Nowadays speakers with horn-loaded woofers are extremely rare, but—trust me on this—nothing pressurizes a room like a pair of K-Horns with 15-inch bass drivers. Sub-par test results, great sound, IF driven and set up right. I had the same thought about using DSP-implemented crossovers as I read through the review and then John just nailed it. But if you're going to do the review...and then publish these measurements....you've got to do better than what was published here. My only quibble would be the normalization he uses for lateral off axis. Room was 29' x 16.5' with 14' peak - listening position ~19 feet from those directional horns! The operating words here are ease, ultra-low distortion (for bass reproduction) - even at close to full chat, and room-filling envelopment. Eeerily similar to a J-10 review from the foggy past! And time alignment of the various drivers using a RTA is critical to ensuring a cohesive presentation. In order to reproduce those peaks without clipping, one's amplifier would need to be capable of a peak power output about 160 times higher than that required for the average listening level. Quote: The Klipschorn can now be toed in or out to obtain the best imaging. That would stay true to Paul's desire for good acoustical matching while maintaining better wavefront propagation in the horn resulting in fewer internal reflections and the ragged response shown. Neither on its own gives the full picture of a product's performance. Not one single Rival customer would have me tweak the design of their speakers and therefore change the sound, in order for them to test better. The compendium of papers in their original form includes never-before-seen issues, hand-written drafts, and supporting images and diagrams. In the years since the Klipschorn's debut, loudspeaker technology has progressed in many ways. Well I came to these Klipschorns by accident. Klipsch 70th Anniversary Celebration with Klipschorn and Heresy hxos plus. Not to be too Zen about it. 216.245.164.8 [ Follow Ups ] Thread: [ Display All Email ] [ High Efficiency Speaker Asylum ] That's why Stereophile's reviews include both measurements and auditioning comments. But to my point. We've watched as the refinements in passive speakers that are affordable have made them really good in the last 40 years. In all fairness I believe Mr. Atkinson's closing remarks on DSP-compatibility with the K-horn is a constructive approach, but as Greg of Volti Audio pointed out it also takes away "the juice" of what really defines these speakers and has for over 70(!) Said lightly. You can build a far better speaker than a K-horn for relatively very little money......planars, like mine, horn speakers, dynamic drivers, etc. Introduced in 1985 as the Forte and relaunched in 1989 as the Forte II, this floorstander faded from the line but was reintroduced in 2017, just in time for a new SET renaissance! -Passive speakers are hardly a comprehensively understood phenomenon, and they're even less a well-developed phenomenon in the casual eye, which casts doubt on the assumption they will automatically be surpassed by moving their filters into another type. Khorns are not that speaker. I removed a load bearing wall between two rooms and converted an 8 foot high truss ceiling to rafter. Digital Trends 34,204 views. AD's room was really not k-horn friendly and JA ran head-long into the difficulties of measuring a horn loaded loudspeaker designed for corner placement and relating those measurements to how the speaker is actually going to be used. Strong, versatile, and quality binding posts provide the capability for bi-wiring or bi-amping. Klipsch Heritage Series speakers are built to order, handmade in the US at our Hope, Arkansas manufacturing facility. It's worth considering the Khorns as a speaker model have gone on essentially unchanged for over 7 decades, still being produced, purchased and enjoyed by people around the world - despite them being restricted where LFE goes, and yet being relatively big and rather costly speakers. No, they were shown with wide spacing and often with a single Belle Klipsch in between. To the efficiency point, a quote from the Art Dudley Klipschorn review: "In the years since the Klipschorn's debut, loudspeaker technology has progressed in many ways. REVIEW: Klipsch klipschorn Speakers Review by Randy Bey at Audio Asylum What can I say about these speakers? If a person wants a speaker with little to no resonances, they should buy one. This is because they're roughly the equivalent of raising the automotive bar by way of the onboard computer - instant EFI, timing curves, boost and traction control, and even racer telemetry if you like. This is an absolute surety. Wonder what JA1's measurements would show? All that complication does is make you focus more on the equipment and less on the music. >> Get on the mailing list so you're up on key moments during the campaign at http://dopefromhope.com. This is just speculation, but I'm with those who say that this speaker probably still needs very tight corner placement (despite the new back panels and in contrast to the company's recommendations) and is best used in large rooms where you're mainly listening to the reverberant field. And for what you do measure, you gave up using a room with smoothing and averaging. • Unfortunately, my basement theater can't accommodate KHorns because of the odd stairs and the weird shape of the room. I admit to enjoying that speaker more than the Klipschorn. You can see this quite clearly in Fig.5 in the measurements, but it's implied in the impedance plot and is also quite clear fro Fig.4. Same for impedance, the Klipsch shows a scary drop, but is this what happens in a room ? Attached is a review of the Klipsch Cornwall from 1999. But with the Air Tight amp I heard grainy trebles during a couple of orchestral peaks. We are running this project independently, but with the endorsement of both Klipsch Group International and the Klipsch Museum of Audio History. I wonder what happened. But that fades in comparison with Dick Burwen's system! And, I would like to add that the Khorns aren't wholly representative of the bigger, more sensitive segment of speakers. While each speaker's high-frequency cabinet is decked out in a high gloss black piano finish, the front panel of the low-frequency cabinet comes in a sophisticated Lacewood veneer. The result is a great selection of loudspeakers that offer apparently flat frequency response, superb stereo imaging, and great airiness and transparency. The impedance of a horn speaker depends greatly on the horn loading....it's not clear in the review text if the impedance was measured in room or in the driveway. ......Bullshit! And my time with the Klipsches was a sobering reminder: Amplifiers and loudspeakers—especially low-power amplifiers and ostensibly easy-to-drive speakers—require careful matching. Apparently we are all beginning to not just accept the value of DSP in real-world implementations as being an outlier, but that it is becoming "normal." I trust there are many owners who are not audiophiles who may be enjoying them regardless of the flaws as there are millions who are still content with MP3s and worse. Now they know what the issues are if they are subscribers. I subscribe to Stereophile to look at two of JA’s measurements. There are inherent problems in the drivers and cabinet that DSP can't fix. The bass that comes out of the horn is second to none but an exponential horn can only cover about 3 octaves which limits greatly the LF extension. guilty as charged being a dsp triamp time waster!! Going back in time, a 1986 review of the Klipschorn from the late Richard C. Heyser. RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - George S. Roland 11:02:31 08/16/19 (0) RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - Steve O 11:25:20 08/15/19 RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - George S. Roland 09:33:18 08/20/19 (0) The weirdness of which defies rationalization - mhardy6647 14:26:54 08/16/19 • I think that a fully DSP'd, tri-amped KHorn would be awesome and I'd love to hear it after they also bolstered that front panel and got a better mid driver. Now they at least know that the amp they use will matter greatly. Many of his reviews and articles can be found on this website at www.stereophile.com/writer/91. Their primary consultant on electro-acoustic/perceptual science is themselves, because they have very good brains and have said a lot of things ;-). I still heard everything I didn't like about the amp, but it worked better with the Klipschorns than any thing else on hand to hook up to the horns. Everyone who reads my loudspeaker reviews knows: I wish box speakers did not sound like box speakers. It's the current thing. For those that don't know, the Klipschorn is a fully horn loaded three-way speaker designed to fit only in "true" room corners. The music had sonic snap and presence and near-hypnotic musical flow—with this album, guitarists Neil Hubbard and the great Phil Manzanera had perfected their tight, spare tag-team style—and now the kickdrum, floor tom, and electric bass had real depth and power, if not quite the last word in tightly controlled note decays. for telling it like it is, and explaining what a great solution might be. Acquired the 60th Anniversary KHorns some years ago and had to really work on them. Therefore, amplitude responses have without question become sighted bias. This is no small thing. For best results, Klipsch highly recommends the Klipschorn be placed in the proximity of a corner." Wonder how "Money" by Pink Floyd in surround sound would sound like in that Burwen's audio system? Basically you're creating a Helmholtz resonator. Can they be improved upon? Klipsch done right can be a window into live music. Technical Editor, Stereophile. God forbid you review Emerald Physics. The Kuzma 4Point's dedicated Crystal Cables tonearm cable connected to a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II phono stage, its signals flowing to either a Parasound Halo HINT 6 integrated amplifier, Shindo Allegro preamplifier with Shindo Haut-Brion power amplifier, or Schiit Ragnarok integrated amplifier, through a pair of Shindo interconnects. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. I would add to that though: shame on Klipsch for not seeing that themselves. The speaker wall had been constructed in a W shape with the middle peak flattened off. While Klipsch has added the back panels meaning the speaker doesn't have to be flush against the wall it still needs the corner loading to finish the horn flare. Some of the same principles embodied in the Klipschorn—and, one hopes, many of its performance characteristics—are found in an old-new member of the company's Heritage line, the Klipsch Forte III ($3998/pair). I heard K-horns in Berkeley years ago at the Stereo Workshop on College ave....back in the late 70s. Where's the tone-bursts ? -If group delay and phase ever become reliably and commonly moored to sound the field will advance and DSP may cease being the conjectured wonder it is today. Of course I was speaking only of the ability to hit the air and make the VLF wave, period. I also love the whole wall-console of mostly vintage-looking gear with its many knobs and VU-meters. The claims for K-horns, if you were there at the start, did include all sorts of things that dropped by the wayside. • Once you have addressed the temporal issues with DSP, the remaining speaker and room related issues are much easier to address with EQ in DSP. I hope, for the sake of fine audio, that this remains the case. I think earlier remarks concerning room reinforcement to be pretty on point, and I'd add that the lowest octaves for this speaker really need a big room. ", "Studying various data," Delgado noted, "I noticed that when the directivity index tends to drop, right before the horn starts to lose control of the coverage pattern, it beams, the coverage pattern becomes narrower and starts to wrap around itself like a cloverleaf effect, and the output comes down. Literally named for the swollen salivary glands they sort of resemble, Roy Delgado's patented Mumps are curved 1" ridges that round off the interior corners within the throat of the K-703-M midrange horn. If you want speakers that measure the way JA and others say a speaker should measure, then go buy some. Add to that a range of DIY-solutions like lilmike's Cinema F20 and Bill Fitz Maurice's THT. There's no evident reason not to seek that goal. All 70 th Anniversary speakers are housed in a book matched, limited … "My measurements showed that my little prototype had better bass and less distortion than anything on the market, yet it was one quarter the size," wrote AR's founder, Edgar Villchur, adding "I thought, 'This has got to be the future of loudspeakers.'" Hands On Review - Duration: 3:51. He was not a super friendly kind of guy. The review tracks to my own listening, almost went with RP-600M but wanted to try the LS50 as my last listening room set were Klipsch. But now that every speaker is custom produced to order in Cherry, Walnut, or Black Ash veneer (all requiring a 3-4 week waiting period), the price has risen to $799 each. They won't have the EQ problems solved, but to each his own. Regarding speakers, especially horn speakers, we are likely all familiar with how people talk about being far enough away when listening to allow for better "driver integration," where sounds no longer seem to becoming from drivers that can be spaced pretty far apart. ..like the Volti Rival speaker. You know, basically my garage system ;). These are the smallest earbuds I have encountered, designed to go further down the ear canal than typical, with tiny and lightweight drivers. Considered a watershed industry event, the introduction of the Klipschorn set the standard for high sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Whether it genuinely sounds better is not. The sound was great. I doubt it. Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile Posted by George S. 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